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Boating in the Age of Ethanol
+2
fishgent
Backlash
6 posters
Page 1 of 1
Boating in the Age of Ethanol
Backlash Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:28 am
By Frank Sargeant
There are a fair number of stories floating around the docks these days of motors that have become ill-tempered and undependable-or even unrunnable--after an extended period of using the gasoline/alcohol blend known as E-10-a mix of 90 percent gasoline, 10 percent ethanol alcohol now found at most service stations nationwide as part of the mandated effort to reduce air pollution.
But according to the makers of most major outboard brands, there should be few issues with using fresh, clean gasoline containing up to 10 percent ethanol in any modern outboard.
A proposal to allow 15 percent ethanol mixes in pump gas would be totally another matter-ALL manufacturers say this stuff would be poison to current outboards, and the NMMA is handing out warning stickers by the thousands to boat dealers to help them make their customers aware.
How bad is E-15? Very bad based on tests concluded in 2011 by Mercury Marine for the U.S. Department of Energy. Two of three outboards run on E-15 in Merc's standard 300-hour, full-throttle endurance test failed to complete the run and showed severe internal damage according to David Hilbert, thermodynamic development engineer for Mercury.
A 300-horse Verado experienced three damaged exhaust valves near the end of the E-15 run, a result which Hilbert says likely came from operating temperatures considerably higher than a similar engine run in the same test on gasoline without any alcohol.
And a 200-horse 2.5 EFI two-stroke in the test had to be shut down after 256 hours due to bearing failure. Hilbert said more testing would be required to determine if the ethanol in the fuel caused a reduction in effective lubrication and brought on the failure, but an identical engine run on standard gasoline had no similar issues throughout the 300-hour WOT run.
So when E-15 arrives at our pumps, we are all going to have to avoid the stuff like ebola-and that can be a bit tricky if the stuff is everywhere, as E-10 is now, and especially if no-ethanol gas and E-10 become hard to find.
And in fact even E-10 is not all that good for marine engines. Where things get a little sticky with E-10, literally, is when old fuel is used, when fuel remains in your boat tanks for months, or when the mix of ethanol exceeds 10 percent, as tests have occasionally shown it does at some service stations.
If an older rig with a fiberglass tank or certain types of rubber or plastic hoses is fueled with E-10, the alcohol may cause damage to some of these components, and alcohol is a great solvent--it literally dissolves the build-up on interior fuel system surfaces, and this stuff can sometimes cause issues with a motor that would not have any problem whatever with the alcohol feeding through a clean, new fuel system.
Honda has advised their dealers that dissolved material can clog the in-line fuel filter and also create deposits on injectors, pumps, pressure regulators, carb jets, valves and other engine parts. While none of this may cause an engine failure, they can all result in degrading performance.
Mercury advises owners that fresh, clean E-10 from a clean fuel system is fine for all motors built in the last 15 years, at minimum. And Yamaha also says E-10 should cause no harm to their motors, though they do advise adding a 10-micron filter to your fuel line to help get rid of sludge or water that may occur in ethanol blend fuels.
Alcohol-blend fuels attract and retain water. If you leave your boat setting outside through most of the winter, the frequent heating and cooling of the air space inside the tank results in condensation, which can build up. It might cause a steel tank to rust, and if the motor starts picking up separated water, it might cause rust problems inside the cylinders, dilution of the oil bathing the rings, and misfiring, among other issues.
What are the hints that your motor may be getting a bad diet? The first warning is an engine that stalls or misses badly when you try to accelerate. Stumbling at idle or trolling speed can also be a hint. Fuel filters that clog frequently are another sign that you have contaminated fuel that could be the result of excess alcohol, or of varnish-like materials dissolved from your fuel tank or hoses by that alcohol.
How do you protect your motor?
1. Buy your fuel at high-volume stations where there's frequent turn-over; this is likely to avoid build up of condensation in the storage tanks.
2. Avoid storing your boat with a near-empty tank. The less gasoline there is inside, the more space there is for condensation.
3. Avoid running your boat down to near empty; the pickup line is more likely to suck in water or gunk washed off the tank walls when the tank is near empty.
4. Install an extra water-separating fuel filter in your fuel line.
5. Use a fuel stabilizer if your boat is to be stored for more than a few weeks.
If you're concerned that your fuel may have excess alcohol content, you can order a gasoline/alcohol tester from the American Honda Parts Department, or from wwwfueltestkit.com, among other sources. These kits allow you to test a small sample of gasoline and determine how much alcohol it has in it, as well as whether it's contaminated with water.
And fuel stabilizers, including those available from all major outboard makers as well as from companies like ValvTect, www.ValvTect.com, can help in improving fuel life when stored for long periods.
There are a fair number of stories floating around the docks these days of motors that have become ill-tempered and undependable-or even unrunnable--after an extended period of using the gasoline/alcohol blend known as E-10-a mix of 90 percent gasoline, 10 percent ethanol alcohol now found at most service stations nationwide as part of the mandated effort to reduce air pollution.
But according to the makers of most major outboard brands, there should be few issues with using fresh, clean gasoline containing up to 10 percent ethanol in any modern outboard.
A proposal to allow 15 percent ethanol mixes in pump gas would be totally another matter-ALL manufacturers say this stuff would be poison to current outboards, and the NMMA is handing out warning stickers by the thousands to boat dealers to help them make their customers aware.
How bad is E-15? Very bad based on tests concluded in 2011 by Mercury Marine for the U.S. Department of Energy. Two of three outboards run on E-15 in Merc's standard 300-hour, full-throttle endurance test failed to complete the run and showed severe internal damage according to David Hilbert, thermodynamic development engineer for Mercury.
A 300-horse Verado experienced three damaged exhaust valves near the end of the E-15 run, a result which Hilbert says likely came from operating temperatures considerably higher than a similar engine run in the same test on gasoline without any alcohol.
And a 200-horse 2.5 EFI two-stroke in the test had to be shut down after 256 hours due to bearing failure. Hilbert said more testing would be required to determine if the ethanol in the fuel caused a reduction in effective lubrication and brought on the failure, but an identical engine run on standard gasoline had no similar issues throughout the 300-hour WOT run.
So when E-15 arrives at our pumps, we are all going to have to avoid the stuff like ebola-and that can be a bit tricky if the stuff is everywhere, as E-10 is now, and especially if no-ethanol gas and E-10 become hard to find.
And in fact even E-10 is not all that good for marine engines. Where things get a little sticky with E-10, literally, is when old fuel is used, when fuel remains in your boat tanks for months, or when the mix of ethanol exceeds 10 percent, as tests have occasionally shown it does at some service stations.
If an older rig with a fiberglass tank or certain types of rubber or plastic hoses is fueled with E-10, the alcohol may cause damage to some of these components, and alcohol is a great solvent--it literally dissolves the build-up on interior fuel system surfaces, and this stuff can sometimes cause issues with a motor that would not have any problem whatever with the alcohol feeding through a clean, new fuel system.
Honda has advised their dealers that dissolved material can clog the in-line fuel filter and also create deposits on injectors, pumps, pressure regulators, carb jets, valves and other engine parts. While none of this may cause an engine failure, they can all result in degrading performance.
Mercury advises owners that fresh, clean E-10 from a clean fuel system is fine for all motors built in the last 15 years, at minimum. And Yamaha also says E-10 should cause no harm to their motors, though they do advise adding a 10-micron filter to your fuel line to help get rid of sludge or water that may occur in ethanol blend fuels.
Alcohol-blend fuels attract and retain water. If you leave your boat setting outside through most of the winter, the frequent heating and cooling of the air space inside the tank results in condensation, which can build up. It might cause a steel tank to rust, and if the motor starts picking up separated water, it might cause rust problems inside the cylinders, dilution of the oil bathing the rings, and misfiring, among other issues.
What are the hints that your motor may be getting a bad diet? The first warning is an engine that stalls or misses badly when you try to accelerate. Stumbling at idle or trolling speed can also be a hint. Fuel filters that clog frequently are another sign that you have contaminated fuel that could be the result of excess alcohol, or of varnish-like materials dissolved from your fuel tank or hoses by that alcohol.
How do you protect your motor?
1. Buy your fuel at high-volume stations where there's frequent turn-over; this is likely to avoid build up of condensation in the storage tanks.
2. Avoid storing your boat with a near-empty tank. The less gasoline there is inside, the more space there is for condensation.
3. Avoid running your boat down to near empty; the pickup line is more likely to suck in water or gunk washed off the tank walls when the tank is near empty.
4. Install an extra water-separating fuel filter in your fuel line.
5. Use a fuel stabilizer if your boat is to be stored for more than a few weeks.
If you're concerned that your fuel may have excess alcohol content, you can order a gasoline/alcohol tester from the American Honda Parts Department, or from wwwfueltestkit.com, among other sources. These kits allow you to test a small sample of gasoline and determine how much alcohol it has in it, as well as whether it's contaminated with water.
And fuel stabilizers, including those available from all major outboard makers as well as from companies like ValvTect, www.ValvTect.com, can help in improving fuel life when stored for long periods.
Backlash- Admin
- Join date : 2010-08-23
Location : Fayetteville, NC -
Ethanol Free Gas in Your Area
fishgent Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:35 am
If you want to find ethanol free gas, this website list the stations throughout the US and Canada that has Ethanol Free fuel. (www.pure-gas.org)
the guy who works on my small engines shared this site with me after repairing several of my small engines damaged by ethanol. He showed me the carbs and they were pitted with a build-up. The fuel lines were melting. The interesting part is that I was using a fuel stabilizer. He recommended I change fuel stabilizers to one called Star Tron - it is made by Star Brite.
the guy who works on my small engines shared this site with me after repairing several of my small engines damaged by ethanol. He showed me the carbs and they were pitted with a build-up. The fuel lines were melting. The interesting part is that I was using a fuel stabilizer. He recommended I change fuel stabilizers to one called Star Tron - it is made by Star Brite.
fishgent- Deckhand
- Join date : 2010-08-24
Age : 58
Location : Pinehurst/Southern Pines
Re: Boating in the Age of Ethanol
dboreliz Thu May 02, 2013 11:46 pm
I had my engine rebuilt last year and had the water separator added. Also, the mechanic installed a shut off valve in the gas line between the water separator and engine. He told me when I'm loading the boat on the trailer, while the engine is still able to pull water, shut off the valve and let the engine die on its own. Not sure if anyone has done or heard of this but, it was recommended by several mechanics I talked to.
dboreliz- New Angler
- Join date : 2010-11-14
Age : 44
Location : Fort Bragg
Re: Boating in the Age of Ethanol
Backlash Thu May 23, 2013 10:20 am
Curious as to the extent of your ethanol related repairs and cost.
Backlash- Admin
- Join date : 2010-08-23
Location : Fayetteville, NC -
Re: Boating in the Age of Ethanol
Coach Thu May 23, 2013 1:11 pm
I know I left gas in my weed eater on accident and it ate the seal around the gas cap. Really made me realize the true danger of using it. Now I use that already mixed stuff from Lowes. Costs more but the equipment runs forever on it.
Coach- Guide
- Join date : 2010-10-18
Age : 48
Location : Fayetteville
Re: Boating in the Age of Ethanol
SEA DANCER Fri May 24, 2013 7:13 pm
I HAD A PROBLEM WITH MY SKIFF (50 MERC. 4-STROKE). COST $550.00. Cause ethonal. It is worse on motors with fuel injection. Mercury said water separator was a must and always use stabilizer ( blue sta-bil ). I buy my fuel on haymont hill.
SEA DANCER- New Angler
- Join date : 2013-02-08
Age : 77
Location : fayetteville, nc
Re: Boating in the Age of Ethanol
SEA DANCER Fri May 24, 2013 7:19 pm
If you go to the web-site listed above and check the major fishing areas along the coast you will find that pure gas is available where people depend on their boats foe a living. All this support can't be wrong.
SEA DANCER- New Angler
- Join date : 2013-02-08
Age : 77
Location : fayetteville, nc
Re: Boating in the Age of Ethanol
Backlash Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:08 pm
There's a free app from pure-gas available for IPhone. The station at the intersection of Pamalee and Rosehill Road also has ethanol free gas. I just bought new has cans for my mower and line trimmer which are now filled with ethanol free gas. To make things worse I was just reading about all of the habitat for Pheasants that has been lost to ethanol production. A decline of more than 40 percent.
Backlash- Admin
- Join date : 2010-08-23
Location : Fayetteville, NC -
Re: Boating in the Age of Ethanol
Coach Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:46 pm
Thanks Tom. That's not that far from me. I will be heading there to get my gas for the mower and the trimmer from now on.
Coach- Guide
- Join date : 2010-10-18
Age : 48
Location : Fayetteville
Re: Boating in the Age of Ethanol
bparker Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:24 pm
One time I had to return two miles to the boat ramp on my trolling moter. Luckily, it was on a lake and not a river or tidal water. But it still sucked! Forty gallons of ethanol free gas at 50 cents more per gallon only costs me an extra 20 bucks! That's easier on my wallet that $100.00 per hour for a mechanic! Daniels Service Station in Raeford has had ethanol free gas for more than a year now.
bparker- Deckhand
- Join date : 2010-10-26
Age : 76
Location : Raeford, NC
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